The Future of Work in Creative Industries: Insights from Creative Ladder

Welcome back to the Take a Chance on the podcast hosted by

me, Alexandra Forsythe. I'm so excited today to be

passing the mic to Abnea Lauriston from Creative Ladder.

Abnea is the manager of the Rising Academy and Creative

Ladder is helping young creatives on their way aspiring

to vines above the ladder. Abnea, how are you doing?

Doing great today. It's a beautiful day here in my

city. I am enjoying the work that

we're doing today and getting ready for our next events and

conference that we're going to, which we were just talking about

Can Lions, yeah. Things are great.

So we've spoken a lot about all of the events that Creative

Ladder do and that you're getting involved in, but do you

want to give the listeners a little bit of an introduction to

who you are and what you get up to?

Yeah. So the Creative Ladder is a

nonprofit organisation that really supports leadership

development for advertising and marketing professionals.

And we're usually looking for folks in the 1st 10 to 15 years

of their career who have an ambition to be a leader, but

just need a path forward and understanding of what is

available and how to achieve it. And so we make clear that path.

We love to call ourselves an access organisation because we

know it's not a talent issue, it's an access issue.

And so we open up doors, we open up access, we make sure that

folks know what's available to them.

And for us, that can look like events that we have like our

events that we just recently we had in New York Bold and our

leadership Boot Camp. It can also look like taking

folks to conferences like when we go to Can Lions or Black Week

in New York or before we used to go to Brand Week.

So those kinds of events. And then we have our own

programming that we do. We have an intensive programming

called Rising Leaders Academy, which I'm the manager for.

And then we have a less intensive programme called

Future of Work, both of which are all virtual, but allows you

to really plug into the content and go deeper.

All of our events programming is meant to help leaders and rising

leaders, as we call them, see themselves in the community that

is present, but also in the content that is being shared.

We showcase how folks can become empathetic, creative, ambitious

leaders who are future forward as well as tech forward.

So we're super excited with the content that we've been able to

put out in the world, in the community that we've been able

to build. 7000 at this point, 7000, we're about to celebrate

our fourth year on July 1st it's.

Amazing. It's still really up and coming

what you're doing, but in terms of that tech forward and leading

with Embassy, it's huge right now.

And we've spoken about this before.

I feel like 2026, human touch, human connection, everybody's

talking about it In the age of AI, how are you navigating that

in terms of creative? Are you seeing any shifts?

Yeah, we definitely see a shift in how people are doing the

work. People are able to do work

slightly faster maybe, but it does take a lot more brain power

to, I think a human brain power to really decipher what AI is

trying to give you and to make sure that you're still creative

and your voice shows up. I think that's where a lot of

creatives have been struggling from my point of view is trying

to find what is that voice that they know they have and that

they want to showcase, maybe while using AI, but even taking

it further with like how they showcase their own brand.

And so I think that storytelling, that understanding

of your POV and your your niche and the thing that you do really

well is even more important now in the age of AI than it was

before. And that's where creativity is

trying to hone in on what is the creative thing that I bring

rather than what is the work that AI can help me do faster.

I was reading an article this morning that was saying use AI

for prompts and automation where you can.

But in terms of creativity, obviously that storytelling,

that's what makes the industry so inviting, longevity, long

lasting in terms of career. So if we use AI to be creative,

it's a juxtaposition regarding the industry.

Yeah. And I think it does take time

for the industry, the people, the tactile, all kind of get to

a place where they're sitting well and working well and and

playing well. So I know that the shift is

going to take time. And there is definitely a

spectrum of where people are right now from, you know, early

adopters who are already on the way to building the biggest next

thing. And I know like the big thing is

like, can a one person company exists where they make a billion

dollars, right? Like everyone's seeking that for

me in the creative space. I think can we all work together

and still create beautiful work and to create moving content and

create things that really help people see themselves in a brand

or see themselves in a product and watch go out and buy it.

But also made that faster because of AI or made that

easier for us to make that possible or make the vision come

to life because of AI. That beauty that comes from the

human brain and the human creativity.

I know, or I hope at least, that this work won't lose it because

so how many humans involved in this want to do that?

They want to be creative. They want to see creative come

through with AI, not be crushed by.

AII embrace AI for automation in terms of tasking, outreach,

drafting up responses perhaps, but I would always do my due

diligence in the end. I would always take that step

back to do check. So I think if we can get to that

place, embrace it for what it is, but always remember that

humanness that comes with this interactions, and I guess that

the live experience and the community that you're building,

that is really what solidifies the human side. 100% and even in

the work that we do, we may like with our programmes, we may tell

people, you know, use AI to do this reflective work or use AI

to do this assignment that we are asking you to do, like a

financial profile on a business or whatever that may be.

But at the end of the day, you have to take that information,

perceive it through your own lens and your own point of view

and give a story that is specific to your leadership.

I think that's where the beauty of AI can meet creativity and

make even more beautiful thing. Where we are right now is still

in the infancy of that and we're still navigating what that looks

like. So I will say we're years away

from AI even making a video on its own.

Maybe not as many as I think, but I also know in that process,

there will be humans who are behind it, helping it and making

sure that it's doing it right. The AI that will make the swap,

for the lack of better word, that we continue to see will

always exist. Tech always has those moments

where we have greatness being made with it, and then we have

things that we wouldn't want ourselves to be watching or to

be distributing over and over and again, and we'll eventually

start to sift those out of our work.

Hopefully it reminds me of the AI actress.

Will she win awards next year? And that creates a lot of

controversy because you think it's not a person, it's

digitally created. I do agree with that to a

certain extent because it takes away what the award show stand

for and why we have that level of prestige.

So it's interesting. And it will take time to.

I do think that one day we may give an AI artist like who

created a Tilly or a a model or an AI actress the award.

Yeah for yeah for creating and being able to do that.

But an AI itself accepting an award I don't.

See that? So it's it's crazy anyway,

there's too much, there's too much going on in the industry or

something. When you said it's years away, I

thought to myself, Silicon Valley, it's scary.

So yeah, feet on the ground. Talk to me a little bit more

about the bold event. We've spoken about strategy and

creativity, and I think this is a really strong point to bring

out. It no longer feels it's about

content creation or possibly only about storytelling, but

actually having that strategy mindset when you think about,

again, longevity in your career, IP autonomy where you see

yourself. Yeah.

So our bold event is an event that we hold every March during

Women's History Month, and the goal is to truly empower women

in the content. But it's really to create a

space where we can have bold ideas, really think about our

careers boldly, really think about good industry boldly, and

create a space of belonging, ownership, leadership and

determination. And this past one in New York,

the goal was really looking at your career and thinking about

it with autonomy, as well as understanding that yes, the the

winds are shifting, but you can hold on and actually gain more

possibility during this time, not lose as much.

And so how do you meet these moments of pivots or assume

moments of change to truly pivot your career, to truly think

about your career strategically? Should I go into more content

creation? How should I showcase my work?

How should I think of my work? Should I think of my career as

one brand or one agency for the next 10-15 years?

Or should I be working with multiple brands all at once and

thinking of myself as the business and selling my

abilities? So portfolio careers have been

something that come up multiple times during the bold events we

put on to showcase like here's the future of where you can be.

We don't want you to see the changes and get lost and felt

forgotten. We want you to see this change

and feel empowered and emboldened and equipped to meet

it and not feel left behind. You said so many amazing things

and I say that with every guest. So that's just like, that's my

tagline, but I really love portfolio careers.

I talk about it so often as well.

I think the ability to be multifaceted and really tap into

your skill set and say for me, for example, on really corporate

background, heavy consultancy, but I'm such a storyteller

through public speaking, hence the podcast.

The ability to be able to merge that together in a tangible way.

People want more, not just brands, but businesses and then

ourselves as individuals. We want more ROI in life as you

say, I feel 1 industry, one career, 1 brand.

Will that really satisfy? And it's all about that

fulfilment. Yeah, exactly.

That's fulfilment in your career, that fulfilment in the

work that you put out your in your skill set that you're

building too. Because I think as time changes

and as tech changes, sometimes where you are could be what's

limiting you. Right now.

A lot of brands are saying they're AI forward, but because

of IP, you're because of issues with their contracts, they can't

really open everything up to AI. But if you are the business and

you're the person who is doing your work and sharing your work

and you're more on a contractual basis having a portfolio career,

you can use AI, you can open yourself up to new things that

you haven't been able to do before.

And there's a balance to, I think like you can do some days

of nine to five with someone and then sometime after that nine to

five, you have a 5 to 9 that you're doing of doing some

additional work, contractual work, putting out your content,

whatever it may be. So I think that's the other

thing that people are trying to navigate is where can I take

back my time? AI to a certain extent, I got

market research. What you said about putting

together a report or a portfolio of a business, you can do that

through an AI and I do sometimes because it aggregates the data

online builds that report a lot faster than it would possibly

take me one to two days to do that by myself.

I could possibly take half a day and then it frees up that time,

as you say, to put that content out.

Schedule your post and then go on to that contractual

freelancer projects, perhaps with a few different companies.

It is all about getting that time back because you want to do

more, You want more experience and exposure. 100% And that in

marketing and advertising, I think is the new way of being

creative is exposure is being in a lot of different brands or

agencies and seeing how they work and learning from them to

bring to other places. One of our amazing partners,

Dictative Ladder shared Consigliary shared that the

future CMO has to be an architect almost and how they're

building communities for these brands.

It's not just putting out an advert, It's not just putting

out, you know, things on social. It's not just one thing.

It's how do I make all of this work together to create moments,

to create events, to create a craze, A viral moment, whatever

it may be, but to keep the community building and and also

nurture as it's building for this brand, around this brand.

So I think that is that is somewhere that creativity is

going that I haven't heard a lot of people talk about as much.

It's so interesting. There's a podcast that I was

listening to recently. I think it's the CMO podcast and

one of these speakers works at TikTok and she was saying

something very similar to what you just said.

It's about touch points. It's about that storytelling,

CMOS as individuals. It's not just about the market

and getting by and then getting budget, getting the funding to

actually run the campaigns. What's beneath that?

And that comes down to you as a pulse.

And then again, going right back to the beginning end of the

emotion intelligence, if you have that or you can work on

that as part of your professional development, it

will enhance the campaigns, it will enhance, obviously bridging

that gap with the community. 100 percent, 100%.

So interesting those. Soft skills.

Those soft skills are funny enough, and I heard another

speaker say this, Chingy David Ching, say that the soft skills

will become even more important during this time of AI,

ironically, because so much of the hard skills can be done by a

machine now. So like the market research that

you just brought up can be done by an AI, but the soft skill of

like intuition and knowing that this research means this and

that, in addition to that, you've seen something with your

family or with your friends and you've seen something else in

another space that isn't related to marketing and advertising,

but can affect our marketing and advertising.

That's the intuition that is going to be needed by the next

group of creatives too. It's also pattern recognition

and data analysis, and it reminds me you would only know

that had you gained the experience.

So I wonder, what would we say really to aspiring leaders on

their way if they aren't familiar with that process?

Yeah, I definitely would say get familiar with it in any way.

And one of the things that you can do at the Creative Ladder

has a quiz on our website that kind of tells you what kind of

creative you are. I am definitely the productive

kind of creative who loves to create things but make them

tangible. I know of some of my colleagues

are visionary creatives who like to really think of the big

picture and bring it to that, bring it to people to bring to

life. So everyone has their own

creativity and The Creative Ladder wants you to tap into

that. I think for for the folks who

are in the work or finding other spaces, as we mentioned, to do

the thing you're passionate about.

And then for the folks who are in school still or who are still

tapping into their creativity, finding spaces that aren't as

prescribed for creativity that you can bring creativity to.

I think like everybody I've I've spoken to recently has talked

about how they're tapping into tangible hobbies from knitting

to sports to just getting out and doing things with their

hands. I think that's another space

where while AI can get you to do a lot of the brain work that you

have to do quickly, the hard skill of your brain quickly, the

hard skills of your hands, AI still can't do that either.

And that's a space where creativity can flow a lot

quicker to you when you are using your hands and being

creative with your hands. I think for me, the more I use

AI, the more I create conversation, so I often find

myself wanting to really talk to people and not that I don't

already say hello, but I find myself really wanting to say hi.

How are you doing? Because otherwise you're sat

with AI and it's it's very discombobulating.

Yeah. Really interesting and obviously

a soft skill is conversation communication.

So many of our soft skills are going to be even more important,

I think, in this in this age. Definitely.

And also, I took the quiz and I can't remember, I can't remember

exactly what my outcome was, but I think it did say creative

director and it's that storytelling.

Oh, I love that. I love that.

And that is very aligned. With you, yeah.

And I talked to myself and obviously I do a lot of speaking

anyway, so the storytelling comes through.

I wanted to ask you more on the creative side, thinking about

your background because creative hasn't always come naturally.

You have a teaching background before working at Creative

Ladder. Do you want to give some

insights into that? Yeah, I definitely believe there

are two types of creative. So there's the creative noun and

the creative adjective, Adverb descriptor.

More I'm more of the creative descriptor of not the noun

version. I did start my career in

education when I started in as a high school public school

teacher. They did it through Teach for

America. And so really trying to focus on

how do I bridge the gap for my students in a creative way

quickly because because they were so much further behind.

Same thing for when I was working with teachers and

helping them support inner city students, really trying to

bridge the gap for them of like what their students need and

what they can provide as quickly as possible.

And the same for what I'm doing here at the creative ladder.

Everything that I try to do, I try to figure out with as much

creativity as possible, how to bridge the gap from where people

want to be, which is they want to be leaders, they want teams,

they want people to see them as leaders and where they are now,

which is these very capable, amazing, creative individuals

who have so much to share, but just don't see people like them

as much or don't have the kind of sponsorship or mentorship

that they need and the community that they need.

So a lot of my work has always been in this way of bridging the

gap and helping people grow. And funny enough, I'm able to do

it in a lot of different spaces, which I love.

I didn't think I would be able to when I first became a

teacher. And every time I've pivoted and

reformed my career to a new industry, I still am able to do

the same thing as I was as a teacher.

Yeah. What do you think's changed in

terms of teaching through to created now?

Do you see any big differences in terms of pain points for

young? People, yeah, I see the pain

point of things changing really, really fast.

I think in a space where our brain usually takes knee jerky

reactions, implicit bias, as we used to call it and talked about

it, that biases that our brains have when they have to think

quickly, when things are changing so quickly.

I can see that coming up because so many people are relying on.

The the more intrinsic version of their brain to think through

these things. And so the fear for AII would

say comes from that of like this change happened so quickly.

I haven't even had time to kind of hold on to what AI is and

it's already shifted and it's constantly shifting.

That fear comes from a biases that our brain is like changes

too much, too much change. Let's stop.

So I can see that happening. I'm in a lot of the people that

we support and even over time with the people that I work with

who are colleagues, that the the degree at which change is

happening can be alarmingly disorienting and can be hard to

navigate. To the point where now you rely

on old habits to get you through when truly it is new habit that

are going to support you and reconfiguring and bringing new

skills together for a new way of working that will get you

through. And I don't see a lot of people

fully tapping into that part yet.

I think it's just a mixture of uncertainty and then as you say,

everything is changing so fast. We're all trying to get used to

this new normal in a way with AI and technology.

But not even just AI mean autonomous vehicles, Pontown.

There's just so much going on and adaptability is key, but

also we're all trying to tap in and see what is that way forward

that will be beneficial to process.

But I think one of the things that we have to remind ourselves

is there was, there was never a way that was correct before and

there never will be a fully correct way forward now.

And I think that is the adaptability that a lot of us

have not tapped into, which is it's OK to mess up.

It's OK that we won't have the answer.

It's OK that it'll be a little messy.

We'll be, we'll get uncomfortable and dirty, but

we'll keep moving forward. I see a lot of folks kind of

pushing back and digging their heels into the mud or creating

big pieces of themselves so that they can move slower rather than

being more nimble and fast and being more adaptable in the

changes that are happening. It's almost like having a safe

to fail mentality within the organisation.

We also within ourselves as individuals.

I spoke recently about limiting beliefs and my own patterns of

that and having to break those in terms of like you say, it's

OK to mess up, it's OK to not have everything today but try

and try again and wake up and go for it second, third time and

then eventually you will get the outcome you desire.

So it's internal within ourselves, but then also

external within our environment, team, organisation, cultures.

When so it's a combination. 100 percent, 100% fear.

It's the thing that we, I think a lot of us need to let go right

now of the change, of the uncertainty of the am I going to

have the right answer and just take a chance on yourself?

Take a chance. Take a chance on you, yes?

Yes, yes. Very nice, very nice to us.

Talk to me a little bit more about the future of work.

And so Steve, this is a fantastic programme.

You have your bold events, you've got cans coming up, but

you have this future of work as well as the Rising Leaders

Academy. Yes, these are our more

intensive programmes that I'm. As I mentioned, future of work

is all virtual. You meet twice a month to hear

from amazing speakers on our four pillars of agility, AI,

ambition and advancement. And the goal of this is really

to help our future leaders and our rising leaders see how the

industry is changing and what they need to tap into.

So around agility and what we just talked about is around

adaptability and being able to meet the changes and not be

taken aback or feel like you have to be afraid of them.

Around advancement. What is going to truly bring

your career forward in the future?

AI we've been talking about that all day.

We, there is no stopping us with this.

It's, it's here, it's going to be here.

So how do you use it to the best of your advantage and use it

ethically as well? That's a part of that

conversation. We've had great speakers and

every time we've had a speaker, I've walked away with so many

gems. And the same for our attendees

of just like, wow, wow. So much that we can absorb now

and take. I shared a few of them here with

you already with the audience. So future work is really one of

our programmes that for us, it helps keep that bridge of you

just went through an event. We gave you some great content.

You want to keep going with that content and you want to keep

learning. So here's some additional

content and information with Rising Leaders Academy that

takes you even deeper where we're like now here's some

assignment, and here are some ways that you can start really

planning out how you want your leadership to develop.

It's six months long and we're meeting again and folks are

really working on their own after the sessions.

It's a lot more deep work. Every time people go through

that programme, they're like, wow, that is a lot of work.

But it was worth it. And I will never forget the

things that I've learned here. Yeah.

Amazing. In terms of the process of

aspiring leaders and leaders in their way getting involved in

creative ladder, what does that look like?

I'm just thinking since it's specific to US based leaders, am

I right? If anybody say across the UK

wanted to attend virtual, could they?

So anything we're doing virtually, you can attend.

Anything that is being done in person, we would want you to be

close by to attend Future of Work.

We had participants from organisations join after their

organisation said that they wanted this for them.

For Rising leaders, we have an application that is for mostly

US based folks because of the times that we meet.

But then for our virtual events like self leadership and

well-being or sometimes we have virtual events on topics that

are going on in marketing and advertising.

We will have those open for our global audience, which we do

have quite a few people outside of the US as well.

It's such valuable information and there's so many resources

there and as you say, the opportunity to possibly connect

with wider community in the speakers as well.

Yes, exactly. And that's what we are all

about. Our our community at the end of

the day is our bread and butter. The people who come to our

events, who come together, when they do meet each other, they

just feel seen, They feel uplifted by the people there.

It's only you did I think the young traders going back to that

uncertainty community is the most important part.

I remember we spoke about before, not a solo journey, it

really is cross collaboration, especially in our industry.

You've got to be talking, you've got to be sharing your ideas,

you've got to be building your portfolio, but through.

Exposure 100%. We say rising tides lift all

boats and we say, you know, reach back and help someone up

the creative ladder because we know that when you find and

especially when you're building great communities, when you find

great people, you want to make sure that they find those great

people to. The creative ladder grew as big

as it did because of word of mouth, because people would

attend or join us and see how fulfilling it it was, how

amazing it was for them and how impactful it was for them and

wanted the same for someone else.

So 100% all of that. Which type of career do your

leaders tend to go into? You mention marketing and

advertising quite frequently, Creative, obviously, there's so

many roles, so many responsibilities.

Could you give a little bit of an insight into that?

Yes. So for us, we do mostly work

with folks who are in advertising and marketing from

either the account side, production side, design,

copywriting, whatever it may be, paid media.

Our goal is eventually to go into other creative spaces.

We do have a sister organisation group Effort Initiative that

does the film side. Amazing.

They are. Yes, they are there too, but for

us, we we are mostly only in the advertising and marketing space.

Knowing that creativity can be both the noun in this space as

well as the adjective, the descriptor in this space too,

because so much of the work is corporate, but it's in a

creative way. This is the ones department in

the corporate space that can do things creatively.

I can say the industry itself can be so broad, but I think

that's more inviting because there's opportunity if you

wanted to start a marketing and advertise in copyright and then

pivot to production and then possibly pivot to another side

of the industry opportunities and as I feel more fluid than

other industries perhaps. 100% yes.

You hit it right on the nail. The fluidity that you get in

advertising and marketing also allows you to start to see other

spaces too that you can bring your creativity that isn't even

in marketing and advertising. And I think that's also the

beauty of it as a lot of folks start to realise there is sports

specifically that I want to focus on and I want to go deeper

in that. Or there is skin care that I

care really deeply about in the work that I've done in marketing

and advertising and I want to learn more about it.

So they start to go down that rabbit hole of understanding

what skin care is and creating their own brand.

So it is interesting to see how so many people in advertising

and marketing have used it to bridge other industries and

other other aspects of their life to.

Cross medium, it's really a tipping point this year.

I've spoken to show many people, entertainment, gaming, sports

industries are just merging more and more because there's such

value in that crops collaboration.

And we've said it just then, yes.

It's it's no longer helpful to just be by yourself and try to

your industry by yourself. No, we have to cross pollinate.

We have to figure out how to get a little bit from everyone.

I think that's really exciting. Build campaigns, especially in

marketing and advertising, that actually do tell that story and

go the extra mile. Oh yeah.

I think that's where the creative work comes from, right?

Because it's able to see and get sparked from an idea in this

industry or in this type of work and use it and re reconfigure it

for the work that you're doing or the industry that you're in.

I think that's where creative creativity truly lives, is in

the reimagining. That's so much that goes on

behind the scenes. We don't talk about that enough.

Obviously we see the campaigns and you think it's it looks

fantastic. That's why we put it together

because again, it's touch points, it's moments, it's

story, but so much has gone into that from multiple different

teams, individuals over a long period of time.

So I actually find elevating that and.

Yes, we did some work on that too at the Creative Ladder.

Inside the Creative's Mind was one of our programmes that we

had for a little bit to showcase how creatives think.

And then we had on LinkedIn some LinkedIn lies that we were doing

and probably are still on our LinkedIn page on what is the

work of certain creatives and to really dive into the work we

were doing for the quiz as well. So IA 100% agree, like a lot of

the back end work can sometimes be unseen and all you see is the

Super Bowl ad and the people in that or you know, the yes, we

love that or yes, no talking about about that at all.

But that's thousands of people, not just the people on that ad.

And I also think like for a lot of young people, they, they

don't understand a lot of what's happening in the back end.

And so they don't think it's possible.

They don't think it's even tangible.

And I think giving some sense of what's behind the curtain allows

people to see themselves in that work too.

You think about the poker as a prime example.

I've gone through the whole life cycle, putting the title

together, the concept, getting the guests, the location,

lighting, sound editing. So I'm in quite a fortunate

position. I've seen the whole process, all

of the back end. It doesn't take away the magic

and I it's getting that point across.

Actually, it makes the magic even more sustainable because by

the time you get to the finished product, you think, Oh my God,

and exactly the work that's gone into it.

So it makes it even more exciting.

I can't wait to put this content out there.

I think it shouldn't be seen as a barrier.

It should actually be seen as breaking down barriers in the

mind because otherwise for young people now, especially with

social media, it's almost like this glass veil goes up and by

the time they get into the workforce, they think to

themselves. She didn't realise it was going

to be like this when nobody told me that this was what was

expected of me. And you think, well, we should

have. Really.

Yeah, that statement, nobody told me.

I've heard it so many times. I think that's the reason why

the creative ladder exists even is to be that bridge again, of

making it much easier for you to see what's behind the curtain.

Making it much easier for you to fall in love with this work.

Making it much easier for you to see yourself as a leader.

Because without that you will walk in and think what I just

spent the 1st 10 years of my life working and not

recognising, I think that this is actually the work I could be

doing or what I thought I had to do this work this way.

And it's actually through mentorship and sponsorship that

I need to really elevate myself. So we, we're not giving you

shortcuts, but we're giving you ways to see the past a lot

clearer than by yourself. Which community is such an

important piece of that? Of like how many people can you

see around you? Doing this work helps open your

brain to it being possible for yourself.

It's so needed because we're not taking anything away.

We're giving you that pathway. I mean, you have internships and

you have apprenticeships where you can gain that beforehand

experience. I think just being able to see

that pathway clearly, you work out whether it's for you or not

sooner rather than later. Yes, yes, that is 100% true too,

because we are called the creative ladder, but we know it

is not a ladder to get to where you want to be in your career.

It is a web and you need to figure out your path through

that web. And you are because one door

opens to another door that can lead to the same place.

But it's the journey that really matters.

How you're taking that journey, who you're bringing along with

you on that journey that will make your, your career ladder,

your career web, however you want to describe it really

meaningful to you. It's not really that role.

And I think a lot of times people think once I hit that

role or once I hit that pay grade, I will achieve this thing

in my career. No, it's truly the journey and

the path that you take and the people that you bring along with

you and how much you also give to others as you're on that

journey that will truly make it meaningful for you can.

You agree more. Definitely the journey,

everybody's on their own pathway and it's for you to figure out

going back to that autonomy piece, the young creatives, now

it's your time to really figure out what you want to do.

But in terms of the future of creative ladder, let's say you

got cans coming out, more events this year.

What's it look like? Can is definitely on our mind.

We are definitely thinking about how.

Not long to go, we. Show up.

Yes, we show up for our cohort there and make them have the

best experience to accelerate their careers.

And then after that, we're really thinking about how we put

on a more virtual experience for our organisation because we know

we have so many people, so many places that want to connect and

want to be part of community. So the creative ladder is is

always trying to figure out how we meet our community where they

are and be the most impactful that we can be.

Knowing that, again, it's not a talent issue, it's just an

access issue. I wish you all the best.

Obviously we're very connected with Code Fladder and I will be

sharing all of the resources from today's episode.

Any last strategies recommendation for people

listening? They can get involved with

Creative Ladder. Obviously your websites live,

you're on social media, so you can connect with Apnea on

LinkedIn, Creative Ladder across social media.

Anything else you'd like to say to listeners?

We have a lot of people tuning in from the US, also UK and

other parts of the world. I think one of the things I will

say is keep climbing where our CEO Diana loves to say that

because at the end of the day, if you keep going, you will

achieve what you want to. It is truly, it is the stopping

moment that truly harm our career more than the changes and

the pivots and the and the new doors that have to open up it

when others close. I think sometimes those doors

close and change happens and we think we have to stop.

And in reality, you just have to keep climbing.

You have to keep figuring out your way through the web.

So keep climbing everyone. I.

Love, like keep climbing and figuring out your way through

the web, but it reminds me of Charlotte's web.

That was Abney and Lauriston joining us from Creative Ada and

I will speak to you all very soon.

Bye. Bye.

Game Plan